Episode 21: Food Anxiety & Eating Disorders
In this episode of South of Fine, we talk with Rebecca Tuner, registered dietician and host of Good Things with Rebecca Turner on SuperTalk Radio, about food anxieties and eating disorders.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Rhes Low, Host:
Hey, guys. Welcome back to another episode of South of Fine. I'm your host, Rhes Low. As our regular listeners know, our goal at South of Fine is to change the stigma around mental healthcare. One of the best ways we can do this is by inviting more people to join the conversation. Come on. If you want to help our podcast get seen by more people, please subscribe to South of Fine, rate us and then share episodes with friends and family.
In the meantime, today we are going to have a conversation with a woman of many trades and many talents, Rebecca Turner. Rebecca is host of Good Things with Rebecca Turner on SuperTalk Mississippi. She is also a registered dietitian with a website where she shares her story with disordered eating and promotes health and wellness. This is a great show. Hope you guys enjoy it.
All right. Eating a healthy balance of foods is an important aspect in all of our lives.
Food is what keeps our bodies running and our energy levels high. However, for some of us, anxiety can develop around food and eating disorders can arise. I know this firsthand, being in the entertainment industry for so long. Eating disorders are the mental illness with the highest mortality rate. That I did not know. That's really interesting. But they are not a conscious choice. Many suffering from an eating disorder do not understand the severity of their illness, and they choose not to seek help. Today, Rebecca is speaking with us about these illnesses. How're doing, Rebecca?
Rebecca Turner:
I'm doing well, and you're correct on that. I think it's 70% of people who suffer from an eating disorder will not seek treatment due to stigma, or just not realizing that the thoughts that they're having or the anxiety they're having around food and their body image isn't "normal" or helpful or healthy at all. Having these conversations is a great start to at least raising the awareness to the fact that you don't have to think that way or feel that way about your body to make a healthier lifestyle in general, and it's not a healthy lifestyle to have those kind of thoughts and feelings around food.
Low:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Like I said, I've seen it over and over again in the entertainment industry. We think we're being healthy, but we're ... As a man, even men and women, especially in the entertainment industry, and I'm sure that extends beyond. We have become obsessed with your food intake. As I look back, I didn't realize how much a part of my life it was until now when I'm looking at it in retrospect. Every single thing that I did was related to something that I ate.
Turner:
But we were trained and conditioned to be that way, at least here in America, right? We have, every day, a bazillion images that we are being portrayed of the way that we should look or should feel. We often link success and love and affection to the beautiful images of fit, trim, and healthy. But then on the flip side of that, we're also getting these damaging marketing tactics saying that sugar is evil, and that you are going to eat something if it's not organic and you're going to cause yourself cancer.
There's two devils in the details when it comes to the way that Americans are being informed about nutrition and health, and neither one of them have shown or been proven to be helpful in actually reversing any of the actual chronic illnesses that affect us in large proportions. It's only hurting our mental health, it's not actually helping our physical health at all. It's frustrating as a dietitian to feel like you're working uphill, because people have such high expectations of what they should look like or they should weigh or their food should do when really ... I would just let everybody take a chill pill and let's just bring it down a notch, right? Pump the brakes, and look at what's facts versus feelings versus fiction when it comes to what actual health means, good health actually means.
Low:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's a great point. Even just listening to you talk about all that and ups and downs and how we've misconstrued everything in America, it gives me anxiety. So I can-
You know what I mean? It is such a hot topic and it's odd that we haven't gotten to this yet on a mental health podcast because it is such a prevailing issue. There is a line of understanding here. Where is that line with someone being conscious of what they're eating? I'm conscious of what I'm eating right now, because-
Turner:
Fair.
Low:
... COVID. I've gained a little bit of weight, I don't feel good, I need to reduce that a little bit, and I don't want to buy new clothes.
Turner:
That's fair. Where is the line of trying to eat healthy, and then where do you develop a problem around that, around food?
This is where it gets tricky. Again, we see different conversations going on at the end of the spectrum. There's a whole movement of squashing this whole idea of dieting at all, and I think that's not necessarily helpful because, as a registered dietician, I got into the field because I was amazed and an all of the fact that, to some extent, you can control your health and wellness by the food and beverages that you choose or you don't choose to eat, right? There's real empowerment in that. The problem, the line for me, and in my own personal journey and working as a dietitian for the last 10 years, is when that desire turns obsessive.
It's when that desire becomes the only thing you're focused on. It's when the desire to control your food keeps you from going out for Taco Tuesdays with your friends, it keeps you going to eat out with other people. It's when you take your own food to friends' houses because you need to be in such immense control. It's feeling enormous amounts of shame and guilt if you had a doughnut or you ate the dessert for hours later that linger. Whether you purge that or not, you are harboring the guilt and the shame around foods. It's when you start to categorize foods as good and bad, and you villainize the bad ones to the point that you're afraid of them.
You're afraid of sugar, you're afraid of bread, you're now changing your entire ... The things that used to bring you genuine joy, you're no longer allowing those in in your life at all. That's whenever ... It's a real line. Even then, there's a spectrum because you have a functioning disordered relationship with food for decades. Many of us do, right? And you still are productive citizens and you still take care of your family. But at night, you lay down and you hate the body that you live in, or you avoid mirrors, or you stand in your closet and you cry whenever you realize you're going to have to put on a dress and be seen in public, or whatever that may be.
It's so not black and white. There's so much gray area to even that line. I would go back and say, you probably have an issue with food and body image if it's disrupting your life at all, or causing you any form of mental anguish to the form of self shame, immense guilt, even depression, because you feel guilty because you can't lose the weight, because you struggle with your weight, whatever that means and unpacking that. There's so many things that lead people down that path. But yeah, it's not a really good answer because there's really not an easy one. But I would say obsession is the line that goes between just trying to eat healthy and maintain a balanced diet and managing chronic diseases, to now creating a disorder around food and self image would be the obsession.
Low:
Yeah. I think it's a great answer, by the way. But it's one of those things of how do you do that and how do you manage that? We talk a lot about self awareness on this podcast, and in terms of particularly anxiety, because anxiety has been so overlooked in the past years. It's not a mental health disorder, just something you got to get over, especially [crosstalk 00:09:29]
Turner:
Right.
Low:
Everything that you're describing right now, it seems like it'd be easy to fall into that pattern.
Turner:
Well, again, there's disordered eating and then there's true, full blown eating disorder, and that's where it gets much trickier. But I think we all suffer from some form of disordered eating here in America if you've even given a crap about your wellness at all, or your weight at all. It's easy to fall into that. The first thing is just being aware of what I like to call it, and I wrote about it, it's the first chapter of my first book, Mind Over Fork, which I dub the skinny smoke screen. It is the sneaky marketing, this idea that they're selling you products that can improve you, or you should need improving by losing weight, or losing weight is going to improve the rest of your life.
Not just your health, but your relationships, you're going to succeed in your job, all of this. You have to first be aware of the illusion that people are using the term diet culture right now, which I don't believe that there were just four guys sitting in a corner one day that created diet culture and send it out into the world. I think it's been this slow manifestation of supply and demand where it started with good intentions of having PSAs around health, and then started to spiral because everybody realized that they can make a lucrative ... There's money in it, right?
Nutrition has been complicated for the sake of profits in politics, and anytime you do that, to the extent that we are at now, you have mass confusion and shouting for the next super food or the next fad diet, the next whatever, because they want your almighty dollar at the end. The first step for so many of us, I think, is just becoming aware of the marketing and the advertisement and the diet culture around us that is linking our self-worth to our weight. Okay? Anytime something is linking yourself worth to wellness or yourself worth to a specific body image or style, that is toxic because you are worthy, no matter what weight you are at.
You can be healthy at absolutely any size. Your weight has absolutely nothing to do with your wellness. It absolutely can do with, like you mentioned, you may want to lose a few pounds or get back to where you were because you recognize you don't feel your best and you recognize that maybe when you clean up certain habits, you're just more productive. That's a healthy approach to it. But if you don't feel validated in your own skin until you reach a certain weight or standard of beauty, based off of what other people are telling you should, that's toxic, that's diet culture, and that is nothing but a screen of people trying to sell you something.
I like to get a little holy anger with that, and I like to call it out and see it, recognize it for what it is, and then you have to be able to see through that before you can ever move past some of these disordered thoughts and associations with food and body image. it's a daily practice.
Low:
Yeah, absolutely.
Turner:
If you were someone who is susceptible, especially if your love language is affirmation, like mine is. I [inaudible 00:13:01] be told I'm pretty and I'm doing good job. That is something I have to recognize, that there are other things that can be affirmed about me and my personality or my work that has nothing to do with the size of my pants.
Low:
Yeah. Well, you're doing a great job, Rebecca.
Turner:
Thank you.
Low:
Well, being a part of that industry that created intentionally that problem, it never occurred to me everything you were just saying. When I was in it, I was doing it because I was like, "I have to be ... The camera adds 10 pounds, 15 pounds," which is true, it does it.
Turner:
It is true.
Low:
It does. But it was also important to me because everyone around me looked a certain way, and I thought in order to get a certain role or be in a certain position, I had to have this ideal weight, which is-
Turner:
Kind of true, though. I will say you're probably validated in that and watching ... Because there was, for a long time if you turned on the TV, what kind of women did you see? What kind of men did you see? You didn't see diversity in bodies.
Low:
That's right.
Turner:
That fed in ... Again, I don't think anybody intentionally did that to oppress all the rest of us. But it happened unintentionally, and it's still toxic. Seeing the fact that you can still rise to certain professions, and you don't have to starve yourself. Recently, I know Taylor Swift I think is coming out as one, and some of the others that has said that they basically starve themselves to fit the image they thought that they had to be to rise to their fame. Nobody loves Taylor Swift because she's a stick figure, right?
Low:
Yeah.
Turner:
They would have loved her 10 pounds heavier. But that was also the machine that she was and she got sucked into it. She's one of many stories. But I think you're right. I think there are certain industries that you went into thinking, "Okay, this is just part of the gig. This is just part of it," and you started to have to do disordered behaviors to keep up with the Joneses, so to speak. It's not really your fault, but once you can recognize that, then that's when you can start to get free from it, and it's helpful that people are talking about it and we are seeing body diversity on TV, in entertainment, on the screen, and it's really helping liberate people from feeling like there's only one image that's worthy of those type of talents because that's not true.
Low:
Absolutely. I just want to reiterate, this is really important conversation because the mental health issues in this sneak up on you. To sum up a lot of what we've been talking about, you don't realize it until you're out of it. I think that extends beyond just eating disorders. I think there's a lot of issues that we deal with that we don't realize until we get help. That's why all of our conversation is we're trying to reduce the stigma of mental health, and especially in Mississippi particularly because we're here, but the entire self-reaching out and reading ... What was the name of your first book?
Turner:
Mind Over Fork.
Low:
Mind Over Fork. Taking it upon yourself to educate yourself about these issues. Speaking of education, I know that there are different types of eating disorders.
Turner:
Yes.
Low:
Is that right?
Turner:
There are. When you're talking about full blown eating disorders, there's several different types. I do have my notes here. If I feel like I'm reading ... Because I don't want to mess them up. Because there's a we crossed the line of disordered eating, and then there's a line that gets crossed to be labeled or be diagnosed with a full blown eating disorder.
Low:
What we've been discussing is?
Turner:
I would say disordered eating, which is just ... Again, you're you are able to do life, right? It's disrupted your thoughts, it's stealing your joy, it's probably even screwed up with your metabolism and your health, which I'd love to come back to and link because we are here in Mississippi, which is the most unhealthy state in terms of chronic diseases that have real life implications, and how those two tie together. But then you have the line where you cross over to a diagnosable eating disorder, and that has complete ... It's not like an addiction, I don't want to use that term because it's not like you're addicted to food. It's not the same as an addiction, but it's same as in you maybe drink two drinks and get loosey goosey, but then there's a point where alcohol or substance completely takes over your life, and that's where the eating disorders come in. Some of them-
Low:
Wait, wait. You can't get addicted to food or you can? I would say you could.
Turner:
Okay, so you can be absolutely turned to food as coping mechanisms for emotional issues like people do alcohol. Are you addicted to food or is that just your ... It's not the same as being addicted to alcohol. The mental part of it is not ... Because see, you still have to make sure your body's well fed and well done. For the ease of understanding where the lines are, it's very easy to say it's the difference between having one bad night with alcohol does not make you an alcoholic. Going off the rails and eating four or five pieces of cheesecake or going on a fast does not make you anorexic or bulimic.
It's just when it becomes a pattern that is starting to disrupt the rest of your life tremendously. One would be anorexia, that's where you're going to have dramatic restriction, dramatic weight loss, you're going to start to see someone dress in layers because they're [inaudible 00:19:17] now, they're trying to hide their weight loss. It's not something they're proud of. It's something that starts to take over. They're very preoccupied with safe foods, and that slowly gets limited and limited and limited down to even avoiding water because they know water adds water weight.
That can be extremely life threatening, and in fact it ... I had to find the actual statistic for it, but anorexics are very high suicide rate extreme high. This would be if you have someone suffering from anorexia, never tell them, "Just eat." They can't. They can't. In their mind, it is paralyzing fear to eat what they think is harmful or to gain weight. It is all about usually control. When someone finds themselves unable to control, you talked about the anxiety earlier, when everything else is around, you can't control.
For someone who's prone to an eating disorder, the one thing they'll start to realize is they can control their food, and then that control becomes addictive in the fact of, well, if I can control it this is much, then I can control it this and this, and that I can control it this much, and then I can control it this much, and then that control over it has completely taken over. It's like a leech in their head. In the field of working with eating disorders, we talk about your eating disorder voice versus your voice, and that eating disorder voice is basically like a leech.
It's a villain inside your head. It's out to kill, it's out to control, it's out to convince you that everyone around you doesn't know what's right or wrong around food, and that it's there to completely manipulate every eating situation. That's why it's so hard to overcome. Because to us, just eat, just eat, you'll feel better. Just eat. It's not possible without ... It's very possible. Every eating disorder is possible for recovery, but with recognizing the deeper issues and getting true help that can be compassionate and hold space for you while you try to walk through reintroducing that.
The other one that people probably are used to would be Bellini and nervosa. That is evidence of binge eating, that sitting down and eating a large quantity of food at one time and then finding a way of purging that. Now, the purging can come from actual purging, throwing it up, or the purging can come in the form of laxatives, the purging can come in the form of excessive exercise. Maybe you overate and you're freaked out about it, so you go on a 20 mile walk or run, or you exercise for two hours or two sessions of two hours, right? Because you need to sweat it off.
It's not always purging, it's not always just throwing up. But then there's also binge eating disorder without purging. That's where you go through the yo-yo cycling of sitting down and binge eating large amounts of food, and then going long periods of time with big restriction. I feel like that's way more ... That's probably in that 70% that doesn't get help because they feel like they're just ... They binge, they feel self-shame, self-guilt, so now I'm going to restrict to keep up for that. Well, guess what? You're going to get hungry, your body still needs food, even if you binge three days later, and that sets the stage for another binge.
It's a vicious cycle even if you're not purging the calories. A few other ones though that are less common is going to be pica. That's individuals who, due to just anxiety or whatever, they're linked to eating things that aren't food. You've got soap, you've got string, wool, chalk, clay, starch, charcoal, pebbles. They turn to eating things that aren't considered food. You can imagine that.
Low:
Why?
Turner:
That's just a thing in their head that it looks ... It's just-
Low:
Is it texture?
Turner:
... a voice in their head. Well, it's different for everybody. It's just a compulsion to ... It's something that takes over that they can't control. It's a-
Low:
So it doesn't have to do with lose weight loss? Is that-
Turner:
Nope. That has nothing to do. That's much more of a very anxious sort of something that brought them comfort that just ... Well, it could just be due to a lot of different. That would be definitely something that you will require medical help or therapy and working with trained physicians with that, or healthcare providers for that. One that's not necessarily considered yet a diagnosable eating disorder but it's starting to be recognized because it's gaining in an issue is what they call orthorexia. I think this is sometimes the beginning of anorexia or the beginning of disordered eating. This is where you feel like all your food has to be clean. Not safe like in only food groups.
But we're talking about you start to increase, you start to villainize foods. So no sugar, no artificial flavorings, no dyes, no processing, all organic, no GMOs, to the point of you won't go out to eat because you don't know if the food on your plate is GMO free, or if they added sugar in their dressings. They put such a health halo on organic or pure foods or clean foods to the point that it paralyzes them to be able to go and shop or go and eat without knowing how was it produced? Where did it come from? What pesticides or chemicals are on that? Am I going to get cancer from that? That's usually not weight associated as much as that is a health fear associated. Then you can have a combination of all of these.
Low:
Oh wow.
Turner:
You may have anorexics who then switch when they go through therapy that they wind up in a cycle of ... You may have someone with orthorexia that ends up in anorexia, that then gets help that ends up presenting with binge eating because it's just a cycle of not having mental control around food. It is one of the scariest and saddest of all the mental health issues that I think for people to have to walk through. But there is hope. There is hope, but it needs to be addressed. For sure.
Low:
So if it's affecting your lifestyle and your relationships, there's an issue?
Turner:
Yes. Yes. If you won't go on date night because your boyfriend or whatever wants to take you for sushi because it's made with rice, we have a problem, if you like sushi. Yeah. It's okay not to.
Low:
No.
Turner:
I don't understand it but I mean ...
Low:
Everybody should like sushi. Come on.
Turner:
Let me say too, because like I said, there's so much gray area. When I work with younger women, it's usually young women, [inaudible 00:27:02] few men, but mostly young women, I like to help reinforce them that it's okay to have opinions around food. Sometimes when you first realize that maybe you have ... The problem is we don't know what we like and we don't. I think about the movie Runaway bride and the scene where Richard Gere finds her sitting at the bar eating all the different types of eggs, and because at one point I think he asked her, "How do you like your eggs?" and she had always liked the eggs that her fiance was eating and she'd never taken the time to figure out how she liked her eggs.
She was sitting at the bar eating eggs in every different way. I can't remember now what style of eggs she actually likes. But I feel like if one movie scene could describe the way Americans feel about health and wellness, it's that they don't know what they like and don't like when it comes from foods because they've been jumping ship to every fad diet that set sail and they're so freaking confused because they've just been following 1,000 different leaders. Let me say, it's okay to have food preferences. I get asked all the time, do I have to eat dairy? I don't like dairy. I don't like milk.
No, there are plenty people. It's fine. But you shouldn't be avoiding dairy because you're terrified of whatever false information you've heard about hormones or whatever it may be that's linked to it. It depends on what's driving your motivation to remove foods from your diet, right? Are you not eating bread because it's been villainized to the point that it's like a shameful thing to eat bread? That's the point. I don't want you to eat a lettuce burger because you think that the bun is more harmful than that saturated fat found in the burger.
Low:
Very good point.
Turner:
Which is not to-
Low:
Not to demean that, yeah.
Turner:
Not to demean that, but I mean it's like that's when you have to just start getting awareness and sit down and think through of the food rules and the restrictions that you have created that have just followed you around, and ask yourself, "Why? Why am I fought? Why do I believe this to be true?" Then back that up.
Low:
There's a lot of talk in America, we're so obsessed with fads, and there's so many things to choose from across running the gamut, food, everything. As far as food goes, is there a place that you think is doing it in a healthy manner? Because I can think of two places that I think the culture has a good ... What would I call it? Good food, health scenario. They look at food in a healthy way.
Turner:
Who is that?
Low:
I would say not being from there nor being well versed in the ins and outs of all of their culture, France and Italy.
Turner:
Yes, but they're getting Americanized, which is sad. But yes, they enjoy food, good food, full fat, flavorful. It's about the experience. It's not about the manipulating a meal for the sole purpose of manipulating your body composition. They sit down to enjoy food for the sake of fellowship, and giving thanks for the craft that went into the fine cuisine and where it came from. They could care less what it's going to do to their thighs. Americans are sitting here counting out their freaking almonds so to fit into their macro scheme, and you wonder why you're not enjoying food? We have sucked the joy out of food here in America, for sure. With the most abundant safe food supply in the world, which is ironic [crosstalk 00:31:06]
Low:
Talk a little bit about there's not the rampant obesity in this countries either, is there?
Turner:
No. Okay. One thing, to get back to this idea that I think it was a well intended but then may have spiraled with some poor outcomes, is the fact ... Take Mississippi. Okay, there are facts about Mississippi. The fact is we are the most unhealthy state when you look at chronic diseases like heart disease, diabetes, hypertension. Those things kill. Heart disease is still the leading cause of death for both men and women. It's staggering. It's 600 and something thousand individuals die every year from heart disease across all ethnicities, across all races, across all genders.
Heart disease is number one. Okay. When you have that kind of fear already around, and then you get all of these PSAs that are like, "Well, your weight's the problem," you walk into your doctor's office and the first thing they do is weigh you, they don't even look at necessarily any other parameters, whether your hypertension, your cholesterol numbers, or any of that and they go straight to, "Well, here's a sheet, and I need you to lose 20 pounds or you're going to die of a heart attack." All right? You take that. You're busy, we have all the things going on, no one sat down and really explained anything to you about small tweaks or changes or how to do it incrementally or sustainably.
Then the first thing you do is go on a 30-day crash diet. You go on a detox, you go and jump on one of these fad diets just to lose the pounds, just to do whatever you need to do, and you realize that, yes, that may work in the short term, but then you get hungry, and then someone has a birthday or you get stressed and you haven't been taught how to manage your emotions around food or to actually add back in those things that brought you joy. That's when you "fall off the wagon," whatever that is, and you roll down the hill and you crash and burn.
Now all the guilt and shame comes on because you couldn't do what your doctor told you to do, and again, it's just this vicious cycle. Not to mention what's going on internally when we do this, it's when we go on crash diets, our body loses weight in a few different stages. Number one, it's going to always drop water weight first. That is why when we do these stupid diet, I call them dumb diet decisions, and I'm sorry if that offends you. But it's some dieting decision.
Low:
I'm not offended.
Turner:
Not offended. Well, it's not to trigger anybody or to make anyone feel shame. But it's just a dietician who's just passionate about you understanding what's going on. the first thing when you reduce salty foods, when you reduce carbohydrates from your diet, you're going to release probably five to 10 pounds of water weight. What people don't realize is, in your body, for every gram of carbohydrate you eat, you carry one gram of glucose. This is not bad. This is just biology. That glucose has a molecule of water with it. It's just the way it works. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing mean or bad about that. But when we stop eating those things, number one, we let go of the water that was there, and number two, we're not putting back in the things that retain water.
You get an instant gratification that this is working, this is going great, right? Woo-hoo! This diet was the one that was for me. Fast forward to a couple of days, maybe even a week later, when eventually you're going to run out of water retention to lose, all right? Because now you're not taking in the foods that retain it. Your body is going to have to get glucose from somewhere because 60% of the glucose that we take in each day feeds our brain. That's why if you've ever been on a really strict low carbohydrate diet and you see someone eating a sandwich, you start to daydream about stealing that sandwich away from them or you go to this land-
Low:
Been there.
Turner:
Yeah. Because your brain is trying to tell you give me the fuel that I want. Well, the next place your brain is going to get glucose, because it has to have it to function, it starts breaking down your muscle mass. It's called gluconeogenesis, for those that like big terms. The creation of glucose from non-glucose sources, and I have a point here, I promise. What happens is we get back on the scale, we think that we've lost another five or 10 pounds of fat mass, and we haven't. Our body's been eating itself, our body has been forfeiting our muscle mass and our tissue. Why is this important?
Your muscle tissue is the only thing in your body that can burn and turn calories when you're not in motion. It's the difference of going from an eight-cylinder car to a four-cylinder car in six weeks. But what happens, what always happens, is you get hungry and life comes, and then you get off the diet, you start eating the way you a pre-fad diet. Well now, you're putting in calories into a smaller engine, so your body stores more fat. You end up gaining back more weight than you started out to begin with, but you don't recognize what's going on. So you hop back on the next diet cycle.
You know what's not being addressed? Your hypertension, your diabetes, your heart disease, because you've gotten obsessed with this cycle of I'm a failure because I can't keep the weight off, when there's a really good chance that your weight had nothing to do with your chronic diseases to begin with. There is no causation with gaining weight and chronic diseases. There's a correlation that doesn't need to be overlooked at all. But you can walk into ... You can get effective health care or work with a dietitian effectively, and manage your chronic diseases without ever being weighed. Ever. That's where I feel like we've gotten off the rails, at least here in Mississippi, and we've completely missed the forest for the trees. Just telling someone to lose weight is not the answer to our chronic diseases issues.
Low:
But there is shame involved with weight. I got on the scale recently at the doctor and I weighed more than I ever have and I was embarrassed. Why should I be embarrassed?
Turner:
Yes. Because you've been taught you should be.
Low:
Yes, exactly right.
Turner:
You've been conditioned, and so now there's this pill powder patch that I can sell you-
Low:
Yep, I'll buy it.
Turner:
... and it can fix that and it will make you happy and healthy and good in bed.
Low:
Right. Yeah. I was kidding when I said I'll buy it. But I was making your point.
Turner:
No, yeah. Yeah.
Low:
Because a lot of times when we talk about eating disorders, people immediately think about women. I think we've expressed this earlier in the podcast, but men have it as well. A lot of times, we don't recognize it, and-
Turner:
You definitely aren't going to go get help for it, less likely to get help for it.
Low:
The way that I looked at my life for so long was I had a lifestyle of eating healthy, but in fact, I was obsessed with it. I was obsessed with I couldn't touch bread, I couldn't touch these different things. Then finally, I was introduced to olive oil. I started loving that, and I was like, "Let's get some bread back in." I'm old enough too I where I can enjoy it, and I've been in an industry where I try to analyze myself, and so I'm aware of these things. If you're not aware or paying attention to people like Rebecca, then it gets difficult to analyze where you are and what is healthy and what's unhealthy.
Turner:
It's hard to break those habits of thoughts. Because that then.
Low:
There's cultures telling you the same stuff over and over again, like you've said.
Turner:
Especially when you buttholes like Gwyneth Paltrow and her whole goop campaign that came out and said that during the pandemic, she had to stoop to drinking red wine and eating bread. I'm like, "Oh honey, let's go put your privileged thin tail back in a box," because there are people, at least here in Mississippi, who didn't have food during the pandemic. But that goes to show though just to villainize one thing. Bread never killed anyone. A loaf of bread a day, probably is not a great idea. But that's where you have to learn context with foods instead of just black and white with foods, or bad and good.
Low:
Is that part of how we're going to combat these negative thoughts, is education?
Turner:
Yes, and awareness. I will say it wouldn't hurt working with a registered dietician, working with a therapist. I think, and oftentimes, I will not work with a eating disorder patient who has not been therapist-referred. Because number one, dietitians are not therapists. We are not clinical psychologist. We sometimes get wrapped up in those conversations because that's just the nature of working through foods. But the best approach when it comes to if you genuinely know that you have severe disordered eating, on the verge of eating disorder, or full blown eating disorder, you first and foremost should form a foundational relationship with a therapist who can unpack why, because usually there are things that have set that in motion.
A lot of trauma, a lot of sexual abuse is tied into eating disorders. A lot of women carry their weight as a barrier, which is ironic because you're more seen. But if you've ever lost a lot of weight and then you got a lot of positive reinforcement, and that scared the bejesus out of you, you didn't like that because maybe you were sexually assaulted or traumatized as a young woman because of your body, you will subconsciously put the weight back on to keep people from wanting to be intimate with you, or you feeling like you want to be.
There are associations with binge eating disorders with people who struggled with food insecurity or true poverty as a kid. So now anytime that they feel the trigger of hunger, they think back to lack, or as a lack of love. They do everything they can subconsciously to never feel hunger so they don't have to feel the feelings of lack. Duchess, she can't help you with that, or shouldn't help you with that. While I would love to say we can ride in on a white horse and save you from all the foods, it is so much deeper and beyond the plate than just me helping you recognize what a balanced meal and moderation looks like, which is where I do come in and helping ...
A dietitian can come in with those, with the true eating disorder, and help you walk back through and you gain trust with food again, because going back to that egg scene, I want to help you figure out what is healthy for you? What does a balanced diet and an enjoyment, a joy, look like for you, and how can we fit all of those back in in a safe way where you feel and control, not where the food's controlling you, and bring back the joy? It's a partnership between a dietitian and a therapist. But if I had to pick for you, I would invest in a therapist first and unpack those emotions. Because if not, you're just going to be spinning your wheels with me, who's just given you another list of ways to eat, and that's not the problem.
Low:
Yeah. Yeah, and I want to be clear to you, you're not telling people to diet because there's a difference between diet and-
Turner:
No.
Low:
... your diet.
Turner:
But then you do have a diet. Everyone has a diet. What I want for people more than anything is just to be able to define healthy for themselves. When you look at the Webster Dictionary definition of healthy, it's without disease or ailment. Okay. We want a diet that will help control or manage your chronic diseases, that's cool, and you want to have a routine and physical fitness that doesn't cause you harm in terms of injury, great. Everything else is left up to the individual. You can be 100% healthy as a vegan, you can be 100% healthy as a pescatarian, you can be 100% healthy as a carnivore.
Turner:
You get to decide that, and I think people have no idea what to do with that type of freedom because, again, they've been jumping from leader to false leader, to false leader, to false leader for so long and it's sitting down and unpacking that and figuring out what does healthy look like for me? What are the goals I want? What are the foods I don't want to live without? What are the areas that bring me joy? I love a couple beers after a good day of yard work. You know what?
Irresponsibly speaking, I'm not ever going to have a lifestyle as long as I'm not pregnant or driving my children. Where I'm going to give up a couple 100 calories in those cold pops after a good hard day's work in the yard because I'm scared of maybe the two extra pounds I'll keep on because of that. That's the type of stuff. Or bread or whatever it may be, or ice cream. You shouldn't have to forfeit those just because the world tells you that's the standard of wellness or beauty that you have to live up to.
Low:
Rebecca, your knowledge and ...
Turner:
It preach on it forever.
Low:
Down to Earth knowledge is what I should say, and reality of knowledge. You're not jumping on the fad trends. You're just telling it like it is and [inaudible 00:44:57] people who live their ... I hate say this because it's a faddish phrase, but I wanted people to live their best life.
Turner:
The best [crosstalk 00:45:04] On their terms.
Low:
On their terms, right. Not relying on somebody else telling you what to do or what you're supposed to look like or what you're supposed to eat. I think that you have some amazing knowledge to offer [inaudible 00:45:18] Can you tell us if someone wants to reach out to you and talk to you, and learn more about your knowledge of nutrition, how would they do that?
Turner:
They can find me. My website's Rebeccaturnernutrition.com. I'm on all the socials, Facebook, Instagram, at Rebecca Turner Nutrition. You can also pick up both of my books on Amazon, which is Mind Over Fork and Enjoy Good Health. But you can find all that information at my website.
Low:
Just Google Rebecca Turner?
Turner:
Yes, nutrition.
Low:
But [inaudible 00:45:54] site too, because I've actually been at your site, and there's some wonderful information, and it gives a good overview of who you are and your own struggles and-
Turner:
Yeah, for sure.
Low:
... [crosstalk 00:46:03] from just ... You're not just-
Turner:
No one gets a degree on nutrition who has a sound relationship with food, let's be honest.
Low:
Real quick. I know we've run away over. I'm going to get in-
Turner:
I'm sorry.
Low:
... [crosstalk 00:46:17] for this. But that's me, I'm sorry. You've got great knowledge. But on the other side of this, we briefly mentioned physical. For a long time, I worked out the way that I thought people need ... I was told to workout and stuff. Finally, I realized, you know what? I want to find something that's fun that I enjoy doing that gives me physical activity, and I saw that you were a swimmer. I have absolutely loved swimming now. I love it. I love getting in the pool. Yeah, I get stronger. Yeah, I get ... It's helped me-
Turner:
But you do it because it brings you joy.
Low:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Turner:
Not because you're earning something to eat. There's a difference.
Low:
Yes. I'm not overdoing. I'm not obsessed with it. I just enjoy getting in the pool once a day. Twice out with the kids, I get in the [crosstalk 00:47:03]
Turner:
Yeah.
Low:
I think that is the summation of all of this. Just find something that is healthy and brings you joy. But you have to understand what health is first.
Turner:
Yes. There are foundations. Yeah.
Low:
Yeah. Talk to Rebecca, go to her website, find out more about this. Once again, Rebecca, thank you so much-
Turner:
Oh, yeah. My pleasure.
Low:
... for being here this long. I know that you're quite busy. That's pretty much it.
Turner:
Yeah. Cool.
Low:
Cool.
Turner:
Well, thank you.
Low:
Anything else you'd like to say?
Turner:
No, I just hope you enjoy good health and take time for the good things.
Low:
Thanks, Rebecca.
Turner:
Bye.
Low:
If you have questions about mental health and the COVID-19 pandemic that you'd like our providers to answer in a future episode, please email southoffine@rightrackmedical.com. If you'd like more information about Right Track Medical Group or the South of Fine podcast, please visit righttrackmedical.com. Thanks to our production team, Kelley Hunsberger, Caitlyn Clegg, Carol Ann Hughes, Aleka Battista, and Rhes Low. A special thanks Squadcast for providing superior remote interview services.
Continue Listening
Past Episodes
Explore our resources
