Episode 13: Veterans & Mental Health
According to the National Alliance on Mental Health (NAMI), the rate of PTSD is found to be 15 times higher in veterans than civilians. And while not all veterans will experience PTSD, it is important to acknowledge the unique mental health concerns they face. To dive a little bit deeper into the mental health needs of veterans, we are joined by Lee County, Miss. Veteran Service Officer Mike Pettigrew. Listen now below, or anywhere you get your podcasts.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Rhes Low, Host:
Welcome back guys. This is a very special episode because we'll be talking with, and about veterans. All of our lives have been touched in some way by veterans. And for that matter, those that are currently inactive service, whether we know them or we don't. So we're going to serve them today by discussing mental health issues that may occur during active service and/or after. Let's dig in.
All right guys, here we are again. And I know that a lot of you guys are familiar with country music artist, Craig Morgan. He was recently on Bobby Bones radio, and he was asked what it was like transitioning from active service. And he said, and I'm paraphrasing this by the way, "I'm working on it. You have a lifestyle that is unimaginable to the average American and the longer you spend in that lifestyle, the harder it is to transition into something that is nothing like that." That hit me because we all know veterans, right?
We talked about that in the very beginning. And a lot of us don't understand what they've been through. We speculate what that lifestyle would be, but we don't actually know. In that lifestyle sometimes what may, just like in our life, arise are mental health issues. And today we are joined by Mike Pettigrew and he has dedicated his life to serving our country and its veterans. And he has a long list of credentials, but I would rather him dive into them. Is that all right with you, Mike?
Mike Pettigrew:
Sure, sure thing.
Low:
Let me talk about you. Mike, it's so awesome to have you here. So if you could just share a little bit about the ins and outs of your relationship with the military and your years of service to present day.
Pettigrew:
Sure, I've served for 28 years in the US army on active duty. From 1985, when I received my commission as Lieutenant, middle of the cold war through 2013, and that's when I retired. I served primarily as an infantry officer and also later on as a foreign area officer serving a lot of embassy time overseas. So out of the 11 tours that I've had in the service, 10 of those are outside the continental United States. They were what we called OCONUS tours. That took me through peace time, peacekeeping missions, multiple combat tours, all around the globe, in that span of 28 years.
Low:
Wow. That's a lot. So would you say that a lot of your career was focused on understanding people and cultures? Because a lot of years was in a communication role too, wasn't it?
Pettigrew:
Well, communication is a part of every role, especially as any type of leaders in the US military. And so when we take care of people, obviously you've got to communicate with them. And that includes a lot of listening. And we've talked about taking care of the troops, especially on active duty, is all aspects of their life. On-duty, off-duty, to include family, especially if you're in a foreign country and they have their family there with no background, no connectivity. The problems you face in leadership are exacerbated by the additions of all their domestic issues and problems.
Low:
Okay. All right. And not to get too personal into this, but are there any mental health issues or journeys that you've experienced?
Pettigrew:
There's always stresses in the military. I mean just by the nature of the duty itself. And then if you go into combat, that's added stresses and then with the soldiers, you have added stresses of your family back home and they're dealing with their own set of stresses in your absence, so that exacerbates. So you may be facing a very stressful situation in a combat zone, but you're still worried about mom and kids 15,000 miles away. So yes, those do add to it and it just, it makes matters a lot ...
Low:
Yeah. And I have to ask you, I know that you're the commander of the American Legion here, right?
Pettigrew:
In Tupelo, that's correct.
Low:
In Tupelo, sorry.
Pettigrew:
Lee County veteran service officer.
Low:
Yeah. Sorry. I was supposed to be in Tupelo today with you guys and I apologize. I was very much looking forward to that. Instead I'm now sitting in my daughter's playroom at a tiny desk and a pink chair. So very appropriate place to be having this conversation, I guess. But yeah, I apologize for not being there. But yes, I meant Tupelo. And I've read a few things where y'all honored war veterans that were POW's, one, Vietnam, one, World War II. My grandfather was actually shot down ever occupied Holland and was passed to the Dutch underground in World War II for about 16 months. And so I haven't experienced with him not being able to handle that as he aged. I imagine that that is something that we, as civilians, would never understand. And can you talk a little bit about that and how these people have gone on to leave lead such good, seemingly great lives?
Pettigrew:
Sure. And the two that you mentioned that we honored was a Lieutenant Sonpokket, a US Navy shot down in World War II and held captive by the Japanese. And then the second one is US Air Force Colonel Smitty Harris, author of the new book called Tap Code. He served for 2,781 days as a POW in different POW camps in North Vietnam, almost eight years as a POW. And he is probably one of the very few people that I actually revere. Because you meet him, he doesn't portray the persona that a lot of people think about the broken veteran. And he has every reason to do that, because he's been through a lot more than most will ever think of going through. And you meet him, he's very humble, very grounded, very level. And so he's the type of veteran that we look to emulate in the ability to take such great tragedy and then be able to be a role model for future veterans.
Low:
Yeah. And just seeing photographs of him, I kind of figured that was the case. And from no professional standpoint whatsoever, we're not going to hold you to that standard, but can you speculate on what coping tools that he used to?
Pettigrew:
Oh, I'm encouraging anybody to read the book about him and his wife, because his wife is the other half of the story, keeping the family intact. I mean, when he was shot down, she was pregnant with their youngest son, is obviously God and family. And so he had already, he didn't develop the coping mechanisms, he had the coping mechanisms already instilled in him when he was captured.
Low:
Well, and what's the name of the book again, so everybody-
Pettigrew:
Tap Code.
Low:
Tap Code.
Pettigrew:
Yeah. Smitty Harris's response for bringing the tap code to Vietnam. It's not Morse code, the little tapping so the POW's could communicate between each other in different cells without their captors being aware of what they were saying.
Low:
That's awesome. Yeah. I just had to ask about that, just to kind of give them some [crosstalk 00:08:58] props as well. So this is kind of an easy question, but do you think that mental health is important for veterans? And why is it important to recognize that?
Pettigrew:
Short answer? Yes, of course. But let's talk about what veterans are. When we talk about veterans, there's no universal definition of veterans. Veterans to the average person, citizen, versus definition of veterans for the VA, are different. And so if we look at maybe use the definition that the VA, the Veterans Administration uses for veterans suicide, there are basically three groups. Those are that are serving on active duty and that's a whole different dynamic because they're self-contained. Then you have those in the guard and reserve, about 85 to 90% of their time is really as civilians, unless they're activated and they're deployed. But they go two weeks a year and one weekend a month, so they're mostly civilians. And then you have those like myself that have completely left the service and now integrating back into civilian life. And so yes, mental health is important to all. But obviously when you've got soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines in a combat situation, that mental health is extremely important because lives are at stake.
Low:
Hmm. Yeah. And I mentioned that quote at the beginning of veteran country music, artists, Craig Morgan. And he said that, because he was in active duty, I think, for quite some time. And he said it was just fast and you're seeing people die and transitioning from that to the civilian life, he said is completely different. Would you back that up?
Pettigrew:
Oh, definitely. Definitely. Even with myself, like I said, I served 28 years, so my entire adult life was either preparing to go into service as a cadet and then 28 years on active duty and coming out. And so it is, and a lot of it, I guess, it depends on your expectations when you come out, you already have a vision and a purpose set aside for you. But if you're just coming out and then you're going to find your way, then you figure it out. So we always say, when you leave the service, you'll go do one or two things. You'll go where the job takes you or you'll go where you want to live and then figure it out. In my case, I wanted to come back home, being from Tupelo, and then figure it out. So I did have to go through trying to develop and find a purpose. I was still, at least, at the age where I can be gainfully employed.
Low:
Yeah. Yeah. Is it a structure issue? Does that play into it as well? Or regimented issue or is that just-
Pettigrew:
In some ways, I think you're right. I think you get into a where you've been wired. I mean, everything is, I always say "Mission first, troops always." Is a motto of the army. So you're just so focused on whatever the mission is, whatever assignment you're in, whatever job within the assignment that you're in. So you're so mission focused, it becomes ingrained in you, especially if you stay in for like a career, like I did, you've got to have a mission, you've got to have a purpose. You just can't sit back and let everybody row the boat except you.
Low:
Yeah. That's really interesting. And I imagine that it's really difficult as a civilian to see something on the street, if that were to happen, doesn't know how that happened often in Tupelo, that is someone's in danger and it's really difficult not to put yourself in that situation. Is that, I mean, because that's what you guys are made to do.
Pettigrew:
Sure. You moved to the sound of the guns. So if there's something, perceived danger, you're trained to be an active participant, to try to mitigate whatever.
Low:
Do you have to reel that in sometimes? In all aspects.
Pettigrew:
Actually, no. Actually, it's not. I mean, actually I use different skills. Like I said, and my wife, try to be that if some, some person is, an example of at a ballgame and this guy was inebriated, he was a veteran, obviously had some signs of PTSD and he was just getting really out of hand. And my strategy was not to confront him, was to go up, sit by him and bring him down a level. And to come to find out his son was actually playing on one of the teams. And that would be a huge embarrassment to have his father escorted off under police escort. And so we use those skills, really, to deescalate a situation. It's not always combative, even though we're trained for combat, you want to deescalate.
Low:
That's great. That's super great for everyone to know. And that's part of the training as well, I would imagine.
Pettigrew:
That's correct.
Low:
So let's talk about stigma. There's a big stigma in the South with just civilians with mental health. I can imagine that as tough as you guys are and what you've seen and you got to compartmentalize to some degree, that stigma of mental health is a part of the military or am I wrong?
Pettigrew:
No, you're you're right. And it includes physical health, also. It all relates to the ability of the service member being able to carry their weight, whether it's physically or mentally. And we see a lot more of that, that have physical issues by their own fault. They're overweight, they can't finish the run, they can't finish the march. If I can't count on you to carry your own weight, where are you going to be for me when bullets start flying. And so that transitions over to the mental health. If you cannot function in a very chaotic environment, that you don't have clarity, you don't have stability, rational thinking, decisive thinking, you're a detriment to the mission. And then you put people's lives at risk.
Low:
Yeah. We talk a lot about how physical imbues the health of the brain. And so I would imagine a lot of getting that physical in shape first is part of helping that brain get in shape, whether it's thought about that way or not, especially in the military with basic and that sort of thing. I mean, that's for both isn't that right? Basic training to guide both?
Pettigrew:
That's right. You tear you down and then build you back up as a unit, where you're a team, as opposed to just a bunch of individuals in the same unit. But also that training indoctrinates you to some expectations of casualties, having casualties inflicted, taking care of them. And so part of that does build up some mental resistance by managing your expectations when you go to combat. So the better you train, the harder you train, the more likely you're able to cope with a very chaotic or tragic situation.
Low:
So what do you think the future of mental health professionals in the military looks like? Or just mental health education?
Pettigrew:
I think, it's a different generation. My generation, I don't know, I'm at the cusp of baby boomer or gen X, and then the other generations don't seem to have as much of the coping skills or their expectations aren't there. I mean, we grew up with hard life, especially my father and them grew up picking cotton themselves, different lifestyle, different expectations. And so I think they'll have to spend more time on training and educating on coping skills, toughing up the ability, the preventive stuff, healthy mind, healthy body, so that when you deal or are confronted with these types of situations that you're able to cope. And so it needs to balance more. And we did a lot on physical training. We need to do some more on the mental, probably, aspect. So that's where I see, they're actually pretty good about, even going back to 2001, I did a peacekeeping mission and we were deployed to the Sinai in Egypt. We deployed, on my task force, with a mental health professional. Uniformed mental health professional, for the ability to interact soldiers that would have had problems dealing with the stresses of the deployment.
Low:
That's great. And did that help?
Pettigrew:
Oh, it did. We utilized it several times. To include assessing the soldier situation when he was fine, but the family back home wasn't fine. So that mental health professional would help us assess, how was he handling the family situation back there, or do we need to send him back? And on occasion we did. And it was better off of the service member to be back home than with us.
Low:
Yeah. Because the mission is jeopardized, if ...
Pettigrew:
That's correct. Yeah, that's correct.
Low:
That's great. So from your perspective, how can friends and family members be supportive of mental health veterans in their lives and active service members?
Pettigrew:
I think that there's two sections of that. You've got service members that have identified that they do have a problem and sought help, that's one dynamic. Then you have the ones that are in denial. "No, I don't have a problem. I've got this. I'm a tough guy." And so both need education and assistance. Now, if the service member has been identified and he sought help and he's receiving medications or therapy or whatever, obviously the family member needs to be educated on how to better assist that person in his road to recovery. Versus, which I see more times than not, is a service member is in denial. And so when you come back from deployment, there's normal abnormal behavior, and then there's abnormal behavior. And so you have family members that don't know any of this.
I mean, they don't know the signs. They don't know if what they're seeing is normal or abnormal. And they do not know where to go. They do not know what they're seeing. They don't know if it's PTSD, if it's just unwinding or whatever. And even if they're still in the service, they're redeployed, or if they left the service, they've recently had deployed in service. So again, that's education and assistance, but just as important, where to turn to. Where to turn to to get that education, where to get help, am I seeing something normal or am I seeing something abnormal?
Low:
Where would they turn to?
Pettigrew:
Oh, that's what we're working on here. And that's why we've started this task force a little over a year ago to try to reach out because we understand, especially veterans suicide or suicide in general, it's a national problem, but requires a local solution. And so it's not going to be solved strictly by calling the crisis line on Saturday night, and you're talking to somebody 500 miles away. Where's the follow-up, where's the follow on. So that's what we're trying to solve is to ensure, at least for Lee County, if it's a veteran call my office. I've worked with the Right Track and several other mental health providers in the city, I've reached out and we're doing establishing a network or coalition. Is that I can do, just like a chain of command would do, an active duty with a service member comes to his chain of command with a problem, be it for him, be it for his family, her family, whichever, they don't turn them away.
Pettigrew:
They don't give them a card and they don't say, "Hey, we can't help you." They take them to the right person, whether it's physical, whether it's mental, you see the chaplains, you see the mental health professional. You help that service member deal with those problems as best you can. And obviously at some point, to get to the point where they're a detriment to the mission, you got to transition them out to the civilian world. We got a mission to do. We can't keep you on injured reserves forever. So that's what we're trying to do. Or if they're a veteran of Lee County, call my office and then I will hand them off to somebody.
Low:
And we'll put these in the show notes too, but can you tell us the contact for that?
Pettigrew:
Sure. I'm the Lee County veteran service officer located downtown Tupelo on main street. You can reach me at (662) 432-2099. That's my number, it's got voicemail, if you need to leave a message.
Low:
Okay. And then also, Mark, how can people better support what you're doing and just the mental health of veterans in their particular communities? Like you said, it's a national issue, but it's a local problem.
Pettigrew:
Local solution.
Low:
Yes. Sorry. I had a negative spin on that. I like the positive. It's a local solution. That's exactly right. And how can communities better support you guys?
Pettigrew:
Well, what we're trying to do is, like we're doing here, is forming a coalition. A coalition will break down barriers and build bridges. At the same time, we're involving stakeholders in the mental health community and within the veteran community, be it veteran service organizations and national guard, the family readiness group within the guard, that really worked to support the families when the soldiers are deployed. Anybody that's a stakeholder in both those communities. The key thing is you got to have a catalyst. And that's what we decided we need to serve as, first as the American Legion and then myself, when I moved to this position. So ideally I would like to see us develop a model here in Lee County that we could then be replicated for any other County throughout the state, and then States could replicate it nationally.
Low:
That's awesome. That's awesome. Mike Pettigrew, thank you so much for your knowledge, your service, your service to these guys that need some support, and educating people. That's kind of the key, that's what we're doing here on this podcast. We're just talking about stuff and hopefully people want to get involved in the conversation. So thanks. Anything you want to say as we head out?
Pettigrew:
No, I would just like to say one, thank you. And I think these podcasts are a great opportunity. And when I talk to mental health professionals, I'm not really concerned that much about your methodology or your treatment records, that's for Mississippi's Department of Health. My biggest challenge is getting that service member to your door. And that's the biggest challenge I face. And these podcasts are a way of doing that. Somebody that may have a problem with can go into a podcast and listen anonymously, and these podcasts may walk them to treatment. And so that's what we're hoping to do to work with y'all and the other mental health organizations throughout the County, is how do we get the people that need help or the person that identifies it doesn't know where to go. How do we get them there? And so that's beyond the stigma. So obviously you'd like to change the stigma, but that's the strategic objective, that's fighting world war three. We've got a tactical issue. How do you operate in the environment of that stigma and have success?
Low:
Brilliantly put, thank you so much, Mike. I appreciate it, man. That was awesome.
Pettigrew:
Thank you. I look to meeting you one day and doing some more of these and we got some that we can probably do for female veterans that have faced different types of traumas.
Low:
That's great. I'd love to. If you have questions about mental health and the COVID-19 pandemic that you'd like our providers to answer in future episodes, please email SouthofFine@righttrackmedical.com. And if you'd like more information about Right Track Medical Group or the South of Fine podcast, please visit
RightTrackMedical.com. Thanks to our production team, Kelly Huntsberger, Katelyn Clegg, Carolyn Hughes, Elica Battista, and Reese Lao. A special thanks to the squadcast for providing superior note interview services.
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