Episode 19: Moms & Mental Health
Even before the COVID-19 pandemic hit, moms often felt stressed out and anxious. In this episode of South of Fine, we look at the causes of that stress with Carrie Gholston, RN, PMHNP-BC, a Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner at Right Track Medical Group, and answer the questions about mental health that were submitted to us by moms.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Rhes Low, Host:
Hey guys, welcome back to South of Fine. I, as usual, I'm your host, Rhes Low. So all of our regular listeners know that our goal at South of Fine is to change the stigma around mental healthcare. One of the best ways that we can do this is by inviting more people to the conversation like you guys. So if you want to help our podcast get seen by more people, we really, really hope that you'll subscribe to South of Fine. Then you can rate us and share our episodes with your friends and family. We'd love that.
While we're on the topic of family, we have a really cool episode today. It's about moms and mental health. To prep for this episode, our team reached out to all the moms in our lives, young moms, first-time moms, moms of multiple kids, all sorts of moms. We wanted to find out the questions that they would ask a mental healthcare provider. Here's where we found out.
Okay, guys, so I mentioned that we have a few questions from real moms, and today we're just going to go through some of those questions with our guest, Carrie Gholston. Is that how you pronounce it, Carrie?
Carrie Gholston, RN, PMHNP-BC:
Yes, that's right.
Low:
Okay, great. She's a psychiatric nurse practitioner at Right Track Group's Madison clinic. Carrie, thanks for joining us.
Gholston:
Absolutely, thanks for having me.
Low:
Absolutely. So Carrie, you are a mother and you have how many children, several children?
Gholston:
I actually have four children. Is that enough?
Low:
That's how many I have.
Gholston:
I have two bonus kids. I have a nine year old son and a five-year-old daughter and they're my bonus kids. Then I have an eight year old son and a two year old son.
Low:
Oh cool, wow. You guys are spread out.
Gholston:
We are, but we love it.
Low:
I read bonus kid earlier today on someone, that's like you joined forces with a kid?
Gholston:
Yes, exactly. We try to deter from step because the kids get their feelings hurt when we say that. They say that step means not real. So we've adopted the terminology bonus kids.
Low:
Love it. Love it.
Gholston:
Bonus mom.
Low:
Bonus mom, yeah, pretty cool. We're going to get started with the submitted questions. The first question I think is relevant at times, but perhaps even more so over the last year per COVID. What can moms do when they feel overwhelmed? This is a very good question. What can moms do when they feel overwhelmed and like they have just no more to give to their kids, to their spouses, to themselves, to their jobs? What can they do?
Gholston:
It was especially rough for mothers during COVID because we've always been the superheroes, but now we're also the housekeepers, the teachers, we're doing school, we're the nanny, we're everything. So what I found to be helpful is to just be honest about it. As moms, we have so many different roles and we take pride in the fact that we can do it all and do it ourselves.
What I have found best is if I'm honest about that, and I say to the older kids, "Guys, Mom's really tired right now. Do you think you could play by yourself or do this assignment while I sit in the bedroom for a minute?" Then with younger kids, I found don't be afraid to ask grandparents, to ask friends, just talking about it takes some of that power away. It's so, so common for all of us to feel that way.
Low:
That's great. Once again, that issue of communication comes up and we always forget to ask for help. It's so, so important, especially for moms because y'all are superwomen. You can do everything, but it gets overwhelming.
Gholston:
We are. There's no denying.
Low:
Okay, so on a related note, next question is it is extra difficult for moms today, who see the perfect life of social media bloggers... wow, this is good... perfect hair, makeup, clean decorated houses, the emphasis on clean, fabulous meals for supper, and that whole Instagram life. It's easy for all of us, but especially moms to lose touch with reality and feel as though you're a failure at anything you attempt. So how can we manage this and realize that our best foot forward is good enough?
Gholston:
Well, you guys, Instagram, and Facebook, and all that is phony. We show the best parts of our life and we put it on social media. So I've found that I have to stop comparing. What happens is someone on Instagram shows the one clean room or the one meal of the week that they do fabulously. Meanwhile, if you pan the rest of the house, it's messy and unorganized, just like the rest of us.
So I've really tried to limit my social media to, I guess you would say influencers that I feel are real, that show the good and the bad. If I only follow people who are not keeping it real, as they say, I will drive myself mad. I think the fact that we are even cognizant enough to realize that, it means that we are good enough. Our homes are full of love. I'm might have, oh my gosh, y'all, I have Lego's from one end of the house to the other, but you know what that means? That means that I have a little boy, who's the love of my life, so it's okay. Instead of looking at those things like, "Oh my gosh, I'm not perfect," look at it as, "It is just what it's supposed to be. This is one of the best times in my life." Right?
Low:
That's right. That's great advice. The cup half full issue, we forget that as parents. Yeah, and being savvy, I liked that you mentioned being a savvy audience. We have enough information these days to look through the, I guess I can say this on a podcast, BS of an influencer. There's a lot. Reality TV should have taught us that. Even home makeover shows, where they do the parts of the house, and then there's the other half of the house they don't show on TV that's not even fixed up.
Gholston:
Of course.
Low:
Yeah, it's all production.
Gholston:
It is. That's how a lot of the influencers make their money. They have to have this one perfect room, and this one perfect outfit, and this one perfect meal. Meanwhile, they're trying to push Home Chef and all the things that they got in order to make that perfect situation.
Low:
They're working just as hard as anybody else. They're having a struggle to manage their own homes, even though their work's not showing.
Gholston:
Having that kind of pressure, yes.
Low:
I know. So let's see, this third question. This one, a lot of parents will have. So how do I know if my approach to discipline and whether I'm being too harsh or too lenient is setting them up for future therapy? Which therapy's, so I don't know.
Gholston:
Well, first off, congratulations because therapy is an amazing thing. It's not a set up. You're not going to screw your kid up and have to send them to therapy. I think that we all question our parenting styles at one time or another. Usually, most of my mistakes that I have made as a parent, I see come alive through my children, and I can correct it before their eyes. But no matter what we do, we can't parent perfectly. Our kids aren't going to act perfectly and be perfectly. I think that therapy is just an added bonus. I think anyone would benefit from therapy.
Low:
I completely agree. I don't know if I would have agreed with that when I started hosting this podcast. But now having seen it change lives of people who just have the same amount of problems that I have, it's such a great thing to incorporate into your life. It's only going to make you healthier.
Gholston:
It is absolutely. The majority of my plans with my patients involve therapy because it's just, it's so beneficial.
Low:
Absolutely. So let's see, what is this question? Okay, how honest should I be with my young children when discussing family drama? For example, over the last year, I would say some of the adults weren't always playing nice because we didn't agree on how we should approach health and safety at the height of the COVID pandemic and quarantine. So how do we play nice and what do we expose our children to in regard to that?
Gholston:
Oh, this is a good one. First off, in my humble opinion, honesty is always the best policy. What I like to do, especially with the older kids, is we need to be having these talks with them to show them that families aren't perfect. There's going to be people that disagree with you. Not everyone is going to follow the same guidelines. They need to see that's how it is and not have an expectation of perfection.
This is how families are. There's problems within families. Some people disagree. But what's also so important is they need to see that disagreement because they need to see how to resolve it. So I'm very big on if there's a family issue or a problem, we sit the kids down, we talk to them, we involve them in it. Then most importantly, we show them how we overcome it.
Low:
Great, absolutely great communicating that with them.
Gholston:
I'm very big on that. I believe that kids do what they see, not what we say. So they need to see that modeled. They do.
Low:
Our parents were like, "Do as I say, not as I do." I'm like, "That doesn't really make any sense."
Gholston:
Absolutely. Yeah, it's quite literally the opposite.
Low:
The less healthy version of that. [crosstalk 00:12:22]. This ties this together, is that why it's so important for us when we step over the line with anger, or even argue with our wife or husband in front of our children, and do things we shouldn't do, then we sit them down and apologize. Is that what you're talking about?
Gholston:
That's exactly right, absolutely. If I'm make a mistake, I need to apologize just like any other human. We would have the expectation that we would want an apology. It's no different. We need to be able to give that and our kids to see that.
I have this conversation with my husband quite frequently because in his house, they grew up thinking whoever apologize is the weakest link. I'm trying to show my children, he's trying to show our children that it's actually the opposite. It's always the bravest one that can come back and apologize.
Low:
That's really cool, good deal. Speaking of anger, with kids, especially the younger ones, the older ones get it together more than the younger ones. It's the four and the six year old that I have the problem with. Anger just erupts sometimes. Give us some tools on how to deal with that to keep in check, in your opinion.
Gholston:
Oh, you guys. Moms have a hard time with it. You know it? We're with the kids all the time. Like they say, the days are long, but the years are short. So for me, I know we have what's called a timeout in our family. If all our emotions are erupting, and we're starting to get angry, or we might yell, or say something we regret, we have what's called a timeout. So we do a timeout. We go to the other room. We sit for five minutes. Then we come back and we're able to have a conversation.
With little kids, obviously that's not quite as possible, but for me, it's as simple as changing up the scenery. Chances are if I'm inside with my small children and we're all getting a little cranky and angry, we need a change of scenery. Go outside, go walk at the park. Sometimes I pretend I'm going to Target for a change of scenery for them, but really mama just wanted to go to Target. It's just quite simply giving yourself five minutes to breathe. Telling yourself, "This is okay. Moms get angry. We aren't perfect. This is totally reasonable." Right?
Low:
Absolutely. Let's jump forward in time a bit and let's talk about... This is a two-part question. One mom that submitted this said her child is driving. My wife and I are about to enter this. You don't know always where they are anymore. There's a feeling of overwhelming anxiety, especially for a mother, I would imagine. How can they manage that?
Gholston:
Well, parents, we have a really great therapist named Jennifer. That's a good one. I don't know that I have all the answers for that. I haven't gotten to the stage yet, but I remember my mom saying this is one of the scariest times of her life. Hard to sleep, you don't really fall into that deep sleep until your child gets home for the night.
Gholston:
I think a lot of that is coming up with maybe a system that works for you is having a new child driving, whether you have a check-in system, or that they come wake you when they get home. Then a lot of it though is going to be comes from within. You have to say to yourself you can't put a negative thought out in the universe. You have to believe that everything's going to be okay, that they're driving with caution.
This is a time when it's going to be a lot of self-reflection for a mother when you can't control all the situations anymore. Your child is gaining this freedom with age. This is the start of preparing us for when our kids leave for college. When we can't be around them and have all the control. It keeps us sane. We really have to work from within ourselves to allow them to be able to do things like that and trust them, you know?
Low:
Yeah, right. Like this is the first stage of both of us learning to trust each other more in a real landscape, not one that I had my finger on your head and I can control.
Gholston:
That's right.
Low:
It's that like you've done your work and trust them to make good decisions. If they don't, then hold them accountable.
Gholston:
Because otherwise, feeling anxiety about it every time they drive, well my gosh, they're going to drive every day. I'm only tormenting myself when I'm that anxious. This is the start of a huge process of trust.
Low:
Well, it gets really freaky when you see them try to park for the first time, which I've recently gone through. I forgot about the fact that they have no idea how to park it.
Gholston:
Absolutely. I barely do. How would I expect them to?
Low:
I think I'm a great parker, but my wife says, no, I'm always cattywampus, if that's a word?
Gholston:
Yes, [inaudible 00:18:28] don't we?
Low:
That's right. We do. Good point. We're getting through the day and no one's yelling at us because we're too close to their car. Sorry to everyone whose car I've parked way too close to.
Gholston:
I would tell you, my mom has these little cards with the saying, but it wouldn't be appropriate.
Low:
Okay. Save that for the show notes.
Gholston:
That's right.
Low:
This was after the fact that we got this late submission, but I haven't experienced this. You haven't experienced this. But this mom said, "I find that it's really hard to watch my children deal with adulting. I want to take over and help. But, of course, I know that would be worse for them." Is that the other side of the letting them drive, letting them go to school, all of a sudden they're adults and we can't control them anymore?
Gholston:
That's right. It's the exact same thing as the process of trust. I'm asked to do everything in my power when they're with me to teach them to be a functioning adult in the real world. This is the part where, as moms, as parents, we have to let go a little bit. I think that natural consequences are the best learning tool. I never learned a lesson without a really hard consequence. Some people have to do it like that.
So just be grounded and solid in the fact that I did a good job while they were here. They're going to do their best in the situation. Even if we want to jump in and meddle, there's no learning in that.
Low:
That's very astute.
Gholston:
Not meddling is being a good parent.
Low:
Yeah, great comment. We had quite a few very similar questions from moms, who are recent empty nesters, just along the same topic of what we're talking about. This is interesting comment. One mom said, "When my children left for college, I felt like I had been unceremoniously fired from my job. My days seemed emptier. How do I find my next thing?" That's tough. That's a tough statement.
Gholston:
I know. Oh, I just felt that one, you know it? Goodness gracious. I remember my mom telling me that when I first left to go to college, and I'm an only child, so it was like the hardest season of her life. She didn't know what to do on the weekends because there was no soccer game to attend. There wasn't a volleyball tournament. I remember her saying if she even saw a soccer ball, she would tear up.
Gholston:
It's wild because, as parents, we go through this entire season having our kids at home. Some of our thoughts are, "Oh my gosh, I just want to be able to do what I want to do today. I don't want to be with the kids. I want a mom day. I want to do something that I'm interested in." Then they leave and we don't want to do anything we're interested in. We just want to be able to be with them.
Low:
Yeah, good point.
Gholston:
I think it's about embracing the fact that you've raised a great kid that's gone now. It doesn't mean that relationship has ended. Because trust and believe, I still called my mom on every day and needed something. You'll feel the empty nest, of course. It won't be the same, but let's face it, we're not grownups until we're almost 30.
I think it's important that to try and find something that you like. For example, my mom started biking. She got into biking and that became her new hobby. Give yourself some grace too. 18 years of your life has just walked out the door. Oh my gosh, just saying it makes me sad. But give yourself some grace and that this new season can be just as great.
You'll slowly start to find things that you're interested in and that will become the new normal. That will become your new normal. You have to just remember that just because they're not there anymore doesn't mean that the happiness has left. There's still tons of life to live.
Low:
Yeah, it's that relationship just evolves like everything in life.
Gholston:
That's exactly right. I still talk to my mom that much. The relationship has changed because I'm older, but doesn't mean we're any less close.
Low:
Yeah, great point. So finally, this is an odd question because we've dealt with it before, and I'm going to ask it again because I want to respect the moms that sent these questions in. It's when should I be concerned that my child may need mental healthcare? Are there signs? I know that's very broad because there's lots of different issues.
Gholston:
I have two different answers. One is my nurse practitioner answer and one is my mom answer. Typically as a nurse practitioner, what I would tell a mom is if there's been a change in behavior that persists for roughly two weeks or longer, and there's been a change in the level of the child's functioning, whether that be school, whether that be home, then it's probably time to seek help, even if it's just to get a professional opinion.
Then my mom answer is chances are if you've been concerned or thought about it, moms know so much more trained or untrained. Mom's know their children. Chances are, mom, if you have thought about it, then I think it would probably be a good idea to come in and see a therapist or a nurse practitioner, even if it's the one visit just to put your mind at ease. I think that it can never be a bad thing. It's always going to be a good thing to be invested in good mental health.
Low:
Yeah, that's great. I love the both hats there. That's very down to earth and reasonable. Your family is very lucky to have you.
Gholston:
Well, thank you. I tell that all the time.
Low:
Well, Carrie, thank you so much, and for being so willing to do this. Our audience doesn't know, but this took us two days to get the tech right, and you stuck with us, and took some time out of your very busy schedule to be with us. Great, great insight, very down to earth, and well-worth everyone's time, so thank you so much.
Gholston:
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed doing it. I think it's great to get this kind of information out. I'm here if you ever need me again.
Low:
Well, we will, so we're going to hold you to that.
Gholston:
Got it.
Low:
All right, thanks Carrie. Have a good day.
Gholston:
All right, thank you. Bye.
Low:
Bye. If you have questions about mental health and the COVID-19 pandemic that you'd like our providers to answer in a future episode, please email southoffine@rightrackmedical.com. If you'd like more information about Right Track Medical Group or the South of Fine podcast, please visit righttrackmedical.com. Thanks to our production team, Kelley Hunsberger, Caitlyn Clegg, Carol Ann Hughes, Aleka Battista, and Rhes Low. A special thanks Squadcast for providing superior remote interview services.
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