Episode 07: College Students & Mental Health, Part 2
A significant portion of college-aged students struggles with their mental health. According to recent student surveys from the American College Health Association, about 60% of students felt overwhelming anxiety, while 40% experienced depression so severe they had difficulty functioning. In Part 2 of our look at mental health and college students, we discuss this potential epidemic with Dr. Morgan Bryant, Director of Student Counseling and Disability Services at Mississippi College. Listen now below, or anywhere you get your podcasts.
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to South of Fine, a podcast from Right Track Medical Group, dedicated to de-stigmatizing mental health in the south through genuine conversation about the challenges that we all face every day. For more information, please visit our website, righttrackmedical.com\SouthofFine. While we hope you enjoy listening to our podcast, please remember that this is not a substitute for professional diagnosis or for the treatment of any mental health condition.
We hope you enjoy listening to our podcast. Please remember that this is not a substitute for professional diagnosis or for the treatment of any mental health condition.
Rhes Low, Host:
Hey guys, how are you doing? This is Rhes. I am back with another episode of South of Fine. Around the country college students are thankfully heading back to campus and for many, COVID-19 means the experience may not look the same as it has in the past. Social distancing, mandatory mask wearing, and a new classroom and dormitory protocols are creating a brand new way of life for these students. One thing that won't change however is the mental health struggle that many students do face. In fact, the pandemic may just make all of these normal mental health problems more difficult.
In today's episode, we're going to talk to Dr. Morgan Bryant, Counseling Services Director, at Mississippi College. We're going to talk to her about the mental health challenges that students face. Doctor Bryant, thank you so much for joining us
Dr. Morgan Bryant:
Thank you for having me.
Rhes Low:
Absolutely. Let's start off with something a little bit different than we typically do. I would like you to tell us a little bit about yourself and your philosophies on your work.
Dr. Bryant:
All right, starting on July 1st, I began my ninth year as the director of Counseling and Disability Services at Mississippi College. Prior to that, I spent three years at the University of Mississippi's Student Counseling Center. So we're going on several years, over a decade, in student higher education mental health. I think that when I arrived at Ole Miss, I was doing an internship while I was completing my Ph.D. and realized quickly that was where I like to be. I really enjoy working with students. There's just an energy that goes along with college students and I really feed off of that myself. Where they are developmentally is a great place to explore mental health.
I say to students often they're in a very unique place because their brain is developed enough to really look into emotional things, to really uncover, to really explore, to be curious about themselves and why they do the things they do. But they're also not set in their ways like when you get well into your adulthood, you've kind of put in some rigid ways of coping. So our college students are maybe a little bit more able to make changes sometimes to patterns in their behaviors and things that maybe aren't working for them.
It's a time too where they start really exploring the way their family did things and do I want to carry that on to the way I do my family? Exploring the way my immediate family handled stress and anger and happiness and all of those things, and this is a great time to look at I get to decide if I want to do that as well.
Low:
Wow, so this is the perfect time, a great time for personal exploration and I guess if you do some counseling on the side, you can further flesh that out.
Dr. Bryant:
Mm-hmm.
Low:
That's really cool. I've never thought of it from that aspect.
Dr. Bryant:
Right, I think that most colleges and universities really are seeing the importance of mental health in their students. They're really approaching it with wellness, that they want their students to be well. They want their students to be better when they leave the college, with not just a degree, but that we are also helping them become these very high-functioning, successful adults ready to do adult things.
Low:
That's really great. That's an excellent take on it.
Dr. Bryant:
I believe in that as well. We take care of our physical bodies but we also have to take care of our emotional health as well too.
Low:
And both of those seem to coexist and help each other, right.
Dr. Bryant:
Yes, absolutely. I think even our medical professionals have really done a lot of work in trying to understand the balance between emotional and physical health as well, that they do play off of each other, and you can't just treat one without looking at the other as well.
Low:
Yeah, that's super great. I actually enjoy being part of a college community as well. But mine's for completely selfish reasons. It just keeps me young being around young people all the time. Let's get back to this, I seem to divert occasionally too much. Let's start off with more of a tough question.
Dr. Bryant:
Okay.
Low:
Thank you for going over where you're coming from. I think we could actually do a whole podcast on everything you just said
Dr. Bryant:
Absolutely.
Low:
But let's start with this tough question. Recent surveys from the American College Health Association say about 60% of students felt overwhelming anxiety, while 40% experienced depression so severe they had difficulty functioning. This is students on the college level, of course. Is mental health in this realm an epidemic? Or is it at crisis level for college students? It's stats, but what's your take on this?
Dr. Bryant:
Right, right, yeah, I'll talk a little bit about the stats but I'll also just talk about my experience from being in the position that I am. About a decade ago, we saw the reason why people were seeking mental health in a college counseling center was for depression. That has changed. It is now for anxiety. Do I think necessarily that people are more anxious? That's hard to answer. I think that yes, to some degree, people are more anxious. Do we have better language to understand what's going on within us? Yes.
I think there's also much less of a stereotype for people, for students, for young adults to say I'm struggling. I don't know what's going on. I may need help. I think we spend a lot of time telling young adults, when they were in junior high and high school, to ask for help and so now we're seeing a generation that asks for help. That's exactly what we want them to do and to say I'm not doing all that well and I may need some help with this.
I also think there are other things that come into play here that weren't necessarily as much of an issue 10 years ago. Things like, I've got to go there, social media. When I was in college, I'm going to date myself, back in the mid-'90s, I was doing normal dumb things that college students do that was developmentally appropriate at the time. We're understanding who we are with this newfound freedom. But fortunately, mine did not have the ability to be broadcast to multiple people-
Low:
Thank the Lord.
Dr. Bryant:
Yes, yes. Thank the Lord that there are some people out there that have some secrets that they'll keep. But there is that what goes along with social media is the immediately gratification of someone telling me I'm okay with those like buttons. I'm posting stuff, I'm being vulnerable, I'm putting it out there, but if I don't get what I told myself inside is normal for an amount of likes or people commenting on things, then I don't feel worthy or good enough. That just didn't exist 10 years ago. I think we're starting to see some of the mental and emotional ramifications for that new culture of social media.
You can do something, somebody's got a camera, they pull it out, they video it, it goes viral immediately. That's playing in the back of your head all the time. What is this going to look like if thousands of people, millions of people see this?
Low:
Can I ask you this real quick, because someone else has mentioned this in the past, I can't comprehend that type of anxiety. I honestly cannot comprehend what they deal with. Then again, they don't know anything else. How do you help that? How do you address that as someone who probably doesn't fully comprehend what they're dealing with?
Dr. Bryant:
That is an ever-evolving issue that mental health professionals are looking at. How do we support a generation that uses social media, that it would be even abnormal if they didn't? How do we help them be in the generation that they're in while also being healthy about it. I think sitting with a student and pulling apart, like pay attention to when you start feeling more anxious. How many hours or minutes of the day can you be on social media without it negatively impacting you? Do you need to take breaks from this? Build in some boundaries for yourself. But more than anything, just get curious about when it starts to drain your energy? Or when does it bring you energy? Are there times that this is a good thing.
I don't think there's an answer that would really say this is good, this is bad, this is how you navigate around that. I think it's different for every student. Some are more sensitive. I think that's when you get to know yourself, your personality, and what you're able to tolerate may not be what other people are able to tolerate.
Low:
Yeah, so whereas you or I would look at social media, and I've done this multiple times, I've just deleted it. Or taken the app off of my phone because I'm sick of it. But they don't know anything different so they need to be taught the tools and that it's okay to just stop.
Dr. Bryant:
Right, mm-hmm.
Low:
It's not going to be a detriment to them.
Dr. Bryant:
Yeah, and you're not going to miss out. They all have that fear of missing out.
Low:
As we've all had.
Dr. Bryant:
Yeah, most of us have it. Somebody out there is having a good time and I'm not a part of it.
Low:
Still have that, yeah.
Dr. Bryant:
It's still going on.
Low:
Not as much.
Dr. Bryant:
Yeah, I have to remind myself that no, you're not.
Low:
And I enjoy sitting at home.
Dr. Bryant:
Right, me too. So just encouraging young adults or those that work with young adults to challenge, what would this be if you took a vacation from social media? Why don't you do it for perhaps even a day? I personally take Sundays off. I try really hard just to not engage in any type of electronic ... I'm probably dating myself there saying things like that. But try to limit just so that my brain can have a rest. I've noticed that I feel more at peace.
Sometimes I will challenge a student, just give yourself a time. Or if there's one app that brings you more angst, look at it. Let's see, just start looking at it. Because sometimes if I just said delete social media and don't ever engage in it again, it's making you have lots of anxiety, that would cause even more anxiety.
Low:
Yeah, that's very wise.
Dr. Bryant:
I wouldn't say that to someone, especially like you said, they've grown up with this being the normal way for connecting and socializing with people. So the loneliness that would come if they didn't engage in that, the disconnect that someone would feel, would cause some adverse emotional stuff to go on too.
Low:
You said that anxiety is a big part of things right now. Are there any other mental health challenges that you see college students facing currently?
Dr. Bryant:
Well, the thing that we see most where students come in would be anxiety. Depression would follow that. We see things like any community mental health center would. You've got a good amount of people that have experienced some type of trauma as children that have not really had an opportunity to deal with that. Not that their parents didn't give them the opportunity to, it's just maybe their brain is finally catching up with the ability to process through some of those things. We're seeing things associated with the negative impact of lots of screen time that a lot of mental health providers are seeing at other places too.
Low:
Doctor Bryant, we had a previous conversation before this and one of the things that you talked about is how adolescence has changed in the last few years. We've discussed one of the big reasons which is social media. Can you go more in depth with that?
Dr. Bryant:
Sure. Some of the things I'm seeing, I'm not going to geek out with all the research. I think that tends to make people zone out to some degree. But yeah, one of the things is that I'm seeing some students coming with some less maturity than perhaps the generation ... Of course, I'm going to be like my generation had it hard. But I think what we're seeing too in research is that there's an extended adolescence. We're seeing that students are spending more time engaging in some of those behaviors that would be associated with teenagers well into their early adult, mid-adult years. Even so for men, we're seeing males being in that extended adolescent category when compared to their female counterparts.
Some of the things that perhaps are causing or having this happen, the change in parenting styles. We're seeing parents be a lot more involved. They used to call them helicopter parents. We now call them lawnmower parents where they go ahead of their children, make sure everything is done and perfect and don't want them to experience any type of bump or negative things associated with just life sometimes. So I think not to bash a generation of parents, I think that we're looking at this to understand more, some good information about this may not be working.
Low:
That opens a whole rabbit hole too of another podcast.
Dr. Bryant:
Yes, it does.
Low:
Because you and I both know many people that do behave that way. It's from a place of love, as we know. But to some degree, we've forgotten that old adage of no pain, no gain.
Dr. Bryant:
Right, right.
Low:
So that causes, I guess, more anxiety when they step out and head to college?
Dr. Bryant:
Yes, absolutely. And too, I think it's helping the parents understand that when we do everything for our young adult children, like we're the ones filling out forms for them or we're the ones that are calling administrators or making sure their deposits are paid, we are sending messages, not verbally, but cues to our children that I don't trust that you can do this on your own. So a lot of times, it's standing back, getting out of the way, allowing you're probably going to mess this up, so I'm going to allow you to mess this up. Not anything that would cause major harm to someone. I'm going to allow you even the uncomfortable feelings of having to clean up some of your own messes.
I think of teenagers that don't even order their own food in a restaurant sometimes and I'm like, hmm, you're having fear about interacting with adults. I get it. I say it to students all the time, professors are intimidating. They kind of scare me sometimes too. But look at this as a chance. This is not going to be the last time you're going to talk to somebody that's intimidating.
Low:
Right, we still have nightmares about our professors and not turning in our work.
Dr. Bryant:
Yes, yes. Practice this. But having your mom call and talk to the professor on your behalf, again the skills that go along with navigating through that and then the feelings of success after you have figured something out on your own, or like I keep saying, cleaned up your own mess, that goes along with helping young adults reach that next stage of emotional development that's key to maintaining some peace and happiness.
Low:
Yeah, and along those lines, and you've kind of touched on these a little bit, but what are some coping skills that you may offer to some of these guys to help them overcome some of this that we're chatting about?
Dr. Bryant:
Well, I think that coping mechanisms are very personal. But it takes some time. We sometimes take it for granted that people know what they like. But when you're a young adult, late adolescent, early adult, you're still trying to figure that out. You're still trying to understand do I want to go to a party or do I want to stay in and read? And all of the other things around me, but everybody else wants to do this and I don't. So trying to figure out what is it that brings me energy or makes me feel better when my energy is depleted. I think that is really walking with someone and helping them pay attention to that. A lot of times we haven't been instructed. We've been given instructions, so maybe more so than instructed, kind of allowed a place to explore that
Low:
That's great.
Dr. Bryant:
Some things like that. I would also say limiting media, whether that's news, social media, those types of things, that overwhelms our brains sometimes, especially right now when our country has so many things going on that it is triggering that place inside our brain where it's that fight or flight fear kind of place. It's being triggered a lot so making sure that we protect that, that when I turn on the news or I log on to my Instagram or Facebook or Snapchat, I'm immediately going to be triggered about my safety and well-being, perhaps I need to spend a little less time doing that.
Low:
I have an odd thought. Do kids just sit and listen to music these days if they're alone?
Dr. Bryant:
Some of them do, but not, I don't think, to the degree that we did in the '90s, where that was kind of like you sat ... I can remember sitting in my dorm room and having a CD going. [crosstalk 00:22:08] blaring in the background.
Low:
I was not blaring the Cranberries. We can't do a college show without talking about this, suicide rates. It's one of the top causes of death in college-aged students. I think a few outlets actually report it as the second leading cause of death. This represents a crisis.
Dr. Bryant:
Yes, I think this is a public health crisis. I also think it's worthy mentioning that when you look at data like that, you also have to realize that yes, this is happening on college campuses way too much. We have a group of early adults that are coming to the end of their rope and this is the only way they know how to handle that. Something has to be done about that.
I think that that we are really engaging in conversations and making it a priority. There are several national organizations that spend a lot of money exploring and researching this. College campuses are really making mental health a priority, spending the money they need to to have the services. I also think that you've seen a shift too since the incident at Virginia Tech several years ago where colleges have created types of teams that are looking at students so they make sure they don't fall through the cracks. Whereas if one person has had an interaction with someone that's like man, that's off, something's not right, that they get together. Where other people are like, "I kind of had that same experience too."
It's just helping people that are in roles where they interact with students or young adults pay attention. I tell professors all the time, "You're the ones that interact with these students on a daily basis. You are going to be the ones to notice if something is off," and not to fear asking someone like, "You don't seem like you're doing all that well?" And giving examples of you seem like you're not here, your grades used to be really good, you were turning in stuff. And not from a judgmental, shame on you kind of thing, but I'm concerned and I'm noticing that you might not be doing well.
Because yes, I think that suicide and the suicide rate that's grown every year since the 1950s is something that we can't ignore. We all have someone that we probably love that is a young adult or will be at one point. So the fear that goes along with there's somebody that I care about that I want to know if they're experiencing something like that.
Low:
You've discussed a few of the signs that we as friends, we as peers, and as professors and people that are looking our for these kids can notice, such as grades dropping and maybe not hanging with their friends as much. For the kids that are going through this, is there a way for them to acknowledge or see within themselves, are there some tools that they can use to figure it out within themselves, if that's possible?
Dr. Bryant:
A self-assessment type of thing?
Low:
Yeah, self-assessment.
Dr. Bryant:
Yeah, whenever I'm asked to talk to any group of students, again I'm probably going to use this term way too much, be curious about yourself. You know when you're off. You know when all of the coping mechanisms that you usually use that make you feel better aren't working anymore. So the things that used to bring you a lot of joy don't anymore. Or you're finding yourself sleeping way more than you used to. Or not being able to sleep a lot. Things like your appetite has changed. All of those things ... Paying attention to that. I saw follow the energy. Where do you feel the most depleted? Has that happened more in the last few weeks?
I would say depression, struggling is a normal human experience. We feel down sometimes or we feel overwhelmed with anxiety. But if it lasts longer than a few weeks, that's when I start to say hmm, I may need some help with that. Or, perhaps this is bigger than just me. We aren't meant to carry that by ourselves. If it's interrupting your ability to live and participate in the normal life that you have tried to create for yourself, that is another thing that I would be curious and concerned about.
Low:
What are some of those things that these guys are feeling, that they're going through, that they think may be huge problems and are causing lots of anxiety, but they're actually a normal part of their existence at this age?
Dr. Bryant:
I think I do a lot of that. Let's normalize where you are developmentally and what perhaps other people are experiencing that you are. Things like performance. Again, this is like you are living in a place where everyone can kind of know how well you're doing academically. Or even playing sports and things like that, it's posted. It's made public. So I think there's a lot of that I have to be perfect because a lot of people are watching this. That can fuel some of these negative emotional things that are associated with things like suicide and high rates of anxiety and things like that.
Also, young adults are trying to figure out who they are, who they want to be. There's some confusion with that sometimes. What is it that I come from a place, the expectations of my family, or even the culture that I've grown up in, has for me but yet I'm feeling that may not be really what I want to do with life? Or trying to figure out what is it that I'm really called to do and what I want to spend the rest of my life doing? Which is terrifying.
I remind students you're 18 and somebody is saying pick a major because now you're going to decide on the career that you're doing for the rest of your life. That is terrifying. So I'm like let's find something that interests you and start studying that. Many of us probably don't make a career out of the first job we have, that many of us change. But if you will find something that you enjoy, you're probably going to be successful and experience some happiness with that. Then grow it into something that you can support yourself doing.
Low:
Right, right. I spent about 15 years doing something I was very good at and was not making much money at.
Dr. Bryant:
Right, right. Those two things kind of line up.
Low:
But everything stacked on top of each other and it led to what I do now. Life has some weird ticks and turns that you don't realize at that age are in front of you.
Dr. Bryant:
Absolutely.
Low:
And they're okay. It's okay to trip up occasionally and start over.
Dr. Bryant:
Absolutely.
Low:
All the stuff we're talking about, I've got on my script here we're going to talk about some alcohol and drugs, but we've got enough talk about that. Let's be more relevant right now. All the stuff that we've discussed is kind of being enhanced probably by COVID and these new rules that are being in place and the uncertainty that we experience as adults and as children. How is that going to affect them in this new year? I know this is theoretical but ...
Dr. Bryant:
Right, I think that's one of those things that we don't know yet because none of us have lived through something quite like this. We're talking about something that would be categorized like a trauma. It's not ending. It's ongoing. So when we look at it from that perspective that this is a trauma that you have no control over, that doesn't have any end in sight, what are the type of things that does long-term to your emotions? It can do some things that can have some long-term effects.
But I think that we're trying to get ahead of that. I've been impressed and excited that many mental health organization realize from young children to senior adults, all are being negatively impacted by the constant barrage of fearful information, the change, the I don't know when this is going to end, to the loneliness associated with all the isolation that we're having to experience right now.
Low:
Yeah, it's difficult.
Dr. Bryant:
It's very difficult. I'm watching my six-year old even struggle with some of that to my retired father struggling with the things that are going on with COVID and being in quarantine and maybe having to go back to quarantine and oh, wait, I don't know if I can go to school, but we want you to go to school. But school may be a dangerous place.
Low:
I've gotten to the point now where I'm just so sick of this. It's just, I'm sure, many, many people are in the same boat. Then the next day, you're saying to yourself this is the new normal, we've just got to roll with it. I'm so tired. I just want to go to dinner and not wear a mask.
Dr. Bryant:
Right, which is normal. If you think about it, it's normal when you're in the middle of something like this. Again, we don't know what's normal but as best we can, to have these waves of I can't stand this anymore, I'm not doing it, forget it, I'm going on vacation and I'm not wearing a mask to I need to not leave my house for the next three weeks and take this seriously. I think that going on those waves, because we don't have anything to really model how to do this well.
Low:
Yeah, and the poor college kids, it's all about social. I promise you, I probably shouldn't say this right now, but there's no way I could stay away from my friends at that age. It's really difficult for them so props to them. I know there's been some hiccups and that sort of thing, but all in all, they've done an awesome job of dealing with this as young kids that are in the prime of their social life.
Dr. Bryant:
Absolutely.
Low:
If these guys are struggling, these students are struggling, what are some ways they can reach out for help at MC or anywhere?
Dr. Bryant:
I think anywhere, any college campus, most of them, from what I know, have gone to an online tele-therapy type of system so they can meet with a counselor.
Low:
That's great.
Dr. Bryant:
I have Zoom counseling sessions every day. We have multiple people at our office that are doing that. We've been granted permission to do that temporarily. I would say if you're feeling lonely, if you're feeling confused and frustrated, I guarantee you there's somebody else out there that's feeling that way too. So I encourage be vulnerable enough to reach out and say hey guys, I'm struggling. You may not get a response immediately, but eventually getting together, making a point to say every other Monday night, can we all Zoom just so we can talk through what's going on and I can feel less abnormal?
Low:
That's great.
Dr. Bryant:
And I've had a chance to kind of connect. And I would say make sure your forms of connection are in multiple ways. Is it over the phone, on a screen? Can you yell over the back fence to your neighbor? Whatever it is, greet the mailman at the door. Make sure that you're trying to have human contact where you can, even if it's socially distanced.
And remembering too, when we're in a home with our family for days on end, it's okay to get out and take a walk. We all need a little more grace right now.
Low:
And speaking of being at home, what are some ways that parents can support their college students? Especially when they're not physically with them?
Dr. Bryant:
I would say right now the best way to support your college student is to remind them that this is tough. None of us really know what's going on. I'm here to support you. And allowing them the space to make some of the decisions that they might need to make. Allowing them the space of I get it, you're going to be in a bad mood sometimes, I'm going to be in a bad mood, we're going to have grace with each other. I'll let you be in one if you'll let me be in one.
But just realizing that they may lash out at times and may then revert to acting like a six-year old at times. But they're trying to navigate through this as best as we are. I say just holding the space for someone and not having to rush in and fix it for them. That is hard as a parent sometimes.
Low:
Yes, it is.
Dr. Bryant:
That I see that you're hurting. I can feel that you're hurting and I'm just going to let you hurt.
Low:
I've been contemplating that a lot. My oldest is 13.
Dr. Bryant:
Ooh.
Low:
I'm not thinking about now, I'm thinking about us in the future when he's not there and I can't physically do anything to help. It's more of a phone call. It's more of a thought exercise of what am I going to do? How am I going to cope with that? How do my parents cope with that? I think of times where I've struggled and I was in California and they couldn't do anything really. It's all fun and I think that ... Well, not fun. It's fun and sometimes not fun. It's challenging, there we go. Sometimes I need some words put in my mouth.
Doctor Bryant, thank you so much. I could talk a lot more but I'm sure that people have things to do.
Dr. Bryant:
I enjoyed this.
Low:
Good. It was your intelligence and your care and MC is very lucky to have you.
Dr. Bryant:
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Low:
I would encourage anyone that's sending their child there to be on the lookout for your department because you do have that strong sense of concern and care for the well-being of these kids.
So, thanks guys. Thank you Dr. Bryant.
Dr. Bryant:
Yes, I enjoyed talking about this. I'd love ever if you need to follow-up on any specific mental health topics-
Low:
We'll hold you to that
Dr. Bryant:
Yes. All right, I enjoyed this. Bye.
If you have questions about mental health in the COVID-19 pandemic that you'd like our providers to answer in a future episode, please email southoffun@righttrackmedical.com. And if you'd like more information about Right Track Medical Group or the South of Fine podcast, please visit righttrackmedical.com.
Thanks to our production team, Kelly Hunsberger, Caitlyn Click, Carol Ann Hughes, Alica Battista, and Rhes Low. Special thanks to Squadcast for providing superior remote interview services.
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